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Transcript of Robert
Armin's online chat with Tom Jones |
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[RobertArmin] Good evening. Welcome to the Fynsworth Alley chat room. [TomJones] Thanks. Great to be here. [RobertArmin] I'm very pleased to welcome my guest, Tom Jones, one of my favorite lyricists. [RobertArmin] Thank you for joining me. [TomJones] Be gentle with me. This is my first time on-line. [RobertArmin] I think I'd like to start not at the beginning, but a little more contemporary. [TomJones] Okay [RobertArmin] What is the status of Grover's Corners. Will we ever get to see it? [TomJones] I hope so. [RobertArmin] Any luck with the Thornton Wilder estate? [TomJones] We have finished the book and score and we now have to wait for the Estate to let us have the rights again. [RobertArmin] Are they being swayed at all? [RobertArmin] And is there anything the public can do to help sway them? [TomJones] They are sympathetic, but they are also cautious. They don't want to do anything to smirch Thornton Wilder's name. [RobertArmin] Tell us a little about your approach to the show. Is it very faithful to the original? [TomJones] It is faithful to the spirit of the original. I love OUR TOWN. [TomJones] On the other hand, we wanted to find something that would be our own contribution. [RobertArmin] Harvey is a very special and wonderful composer, does his score sound contemporary or more faithful to the original period? [TomJones] So we decided to make it less about small town American - emphasize that less - and concentrate on the theme of Time. [TomJones] The meaning of Time - what Time means to each of us in our lives. [TomJones] And so almost all of the songs in some way relate to the theme of time - the passage of time [RobertArmin] How large a cast do you envision? [TomJones] It will have a smaller cast than the original play - which had 45 people! Our version has 15. [RobertArmin] Thaddeus writes: I saw Grover’s Corners in Lincolnshire, Illinois 15 or 16 years ago. I thought, and still think, that it's Tom and Harvey's best work [RobertArmin] encoreplay asks: Is the Stage Manager still going to be a female role? [TomJones] Thanks for your comment. I love it. I love the original. I love the work we have done on it [TomJones] And whatever happens, it is a privilege to have worked on it. [TomJones] No. The Stage Manager could be either a female or a male role. [TomJones] When we worked on it before, they wanted to do a big tour - and that meant a star [TomJones] And all the big male stars we could think of were dead, so we decided to experiment with the idea of a woman for the role. [RobertArmin] Yes, I've read about how you tried to get Mary Martin to do the role [RobertArmin] You and Harvey have a reputation for both original works -- which we'll get to in a moment -- and for adaptations that in many ways surpass the originals. [RobertArmin] I Do! I Do! is probably performed more times than The Fourposter [RobertArmin] And 110 In The Shade is about to enter a new life, I believe. [TomJones] 110 is now appearing at the Signature Theatre in D.C. in a revised version. [RobertArmin] And thanks to the Jay recording, the entire score can now be heard again. [TomJones] It has been well reviewed and seems to be very successful. [RobertArmin] Karen Ziemba was so marvelous in that production at Lincoln Center. [TomJones] Jonathan Tunick has done new orchestrations for it. [TomJones] And we have done a version using 13 people instead of the 30 that were in the original [RobertArmin] I hope the Signature production comes to New York. [RobertArmin] Any word about that yet? [TomJones] I don't know. [TomJones] There have been some people down to see it. [TomJones] But I don't know whether there are any plans to move it or not. [RobertArmin] littleshop24 asks: is there a reason why you write your shows for smaller cast, is it easier staging and writing wise? [TomJones] Good question. [TomJones] Let me think about it for a minute. [RobertArmin] tuptim asks: I am amazed at the sophistication of Hershey Kay's original orchestration. Why do you feel there is a need for new orchestrations? [TomJones] We have written for big casts, but most of our work has been for smaller groups. [TomJones] I think I am somewhat intimidated by Broadway. [TomJones] All of that money. [TomJones] All of that pressure. [TomJones] All of that "jazz." [RobertArmin] Marsala asks: Can you discuss some of the revisions you made in this version of 110? [TomJones] Most of our shows are both more intimate - and more experimental. [TomJones] Re 110 [TomJones] We made the cast and the orchestra smaller [TomJones] We wrote two new songs [TomJones] We trieI re-wrote some of LIzzie [TomJones] s lyLet me try that sentence again [TomJones] I re-wrote some of Lizzie’s lyrics - to emphasize that it is her honesty and independence [TomJones] rather than just her "plain-ness" that keeps her from finding a man [TomJones] It has been fun to do [RobertArmin] encoreplay writes: I have seen 3 productions of the original large cast version and they were all well done. [TomJones] And there is a terrific cast for the D.C. production [TomJones] Yes. The original 110 - with Inga Swenson- [TomJones] was lovely. So was the City Opera revival [TomJones] But we wanted to do a version that could be done by smaller theatres, too [RobertArmin] And, I must add, that I think it is a beautiful, highly underrated show that will eventually enter the repertory along with She Loves Me and Candide! [TomJones] Thank you so much. [RobertArmin] Marsala asks: Long ago, in college, I played in a production of your show, "Celebration" and loved it. I'm wondering if you're considering a revival of that show? [TomJones] I love CELEBRATION [RobertArmin] So do I! [TomJones] I re-wrote the book last year [TomJones] (Which needed it) [TomJones] And I think it is much stronger. [RobertArmin] Yes, when we only hear the scores, we forget the problems with the early books. [TomJones] I would love for someone to revive it. [RobertArmin] I have had that album since it came out, but have never seen the show. [TomJones] York Theatre did a staged reading of 110 [TomJones] a year ago, with the new book [RobertArmin] I'm sorry I missed it. [TomJones] And it played like a dream. [TomJones] Of course, the original was a bomb [TomJones] And that makes it hard to get anyone to risk reviving it. [RobertArmin] Marsala asks (re Celebration): What kind of changes did you make? I feel very protective about that show!! [RobertArmin] Are you speaking of Celebration -- the bomb? [TomJones] Difficult to explain the changes in this format - [TomJones] Mainly a matter of simplifying [RobertArmin] Thaddeus writes: I loved the staging of the original CELEBRATION -- and the costuming. Very inventive. [TomJones] And sometimes mletting the characters find thmmmmeMy God, I had no idea I was such a bad typist. [RobertArmin] Jim Dickey writes in an email: Any chance that we will see the "Philemon" OC album on CD anytime soon? [TomJones] The main thing with CELEBRATION was to let the people find themselves more [RobertArmin] Typos don't matter. It's the thought that counts! [TomJones] instead of sometimes just being puppets to fulfill the needs of the plot [RobertArmin] You generally write both the book and lyrics. Have you ever worked with a separate book writer? [TomJones] Richard Nash wrote the book for 110 - as he wrote the play THE RAINMAKER [RobertArmin] Thaddeus asks: Will THE BONE ROOM, which I saw back in the mid-1970s, ever be produced again? You seem to have borrowed some of its songs for later plays. [TomJones] Also, we did a musical called MIRETTE with a bookwriter named Elizabeth Diggs [RobertArmin] Do you find it easier to just write lyrics or do you prefer the challenge of doing both? [TomJones] THE BONE ROOM was a wild experiment [TomJones] It never was a real play or musical. [TomJones] It was full of ideas which never found their organic form [TomJones] But it had lots of good things in it. [RobertArmin] Encoreplay asks: When you started the PORTFOLIO production company did you find it hard being both author and producer? [TomJones] Oh, God - what is the word? [TomJones] I believe it is "hubris" [RobertArmin] ? [RobertArmin] Yes... [TomJones] We wanted to be everything [TomJones] To write - originals [RobertArmin] You and Harvey were not short of guts, that's for sure. [TomJones] Originals that had never been tried before [RobertArmin] Very true. [TomJones] We wanted to design them [TomJones] To direct them [TomJones] To totally conceive them [RobertArmin] Presumably why you chose to write small shows! [TomJones] We got grabby with the gods [TomJones] And hubris, as you will remember, is followed by nemesis [RobertArmin] Was the experiment valuable to you? And would you want to try it again under different circumstances? [TomJones] It was valuable. [TomJones] Everything is valuable [RobertArmin] What would be the ideal working situation for you today? [RobertArmin] And are there more shows in the planning stage? [TomJones] Oh, it was so young - so full of vanity [TomJones] So full of hope [TomJones] So doomed [RobertArmin] :-) [RobertArmin] The story of so many idealistic theatrical ventures. [RobertArmin] It all comes done to money. [TomJones] What I learned from it was that my dreams were bigger than my qualifications [TomJones] At least, at that point [RobertArmin] Let's go back to your early, hungry years... [TomJones] And that's when I really began to want to learn how to do this thing [RobertArmin] What was the first song to be performed professionally? [TomJones] To study the form and structure [TomJones] All those things I didn't know [TomJones] That most people don't know [TomJones] It was the beginning of my education in the musical theatre [RobertArmin] It's interesting that you talk about form -- because, for many, you changed the form of the American musical. [RobertArmin] The Fantasticks remains like no other show. [RobertArmin] Absolute one of a kind. [TomJones] Very few people know much about form [TomJones] I think I have learned something [TomJones] I wrote a book [TomJones] It's called MAKING MUSICALS [TomJones] I think it is helpful [TomJones] for someone who wants to learn something about structure and form [TomJones] I am very proud of it [TomJones] It was learned the hard way [RobertArmin] I've read many of your comments in various publications, but I will definitely pick up the book. [TomJones] Our first material performed professionally was comedy material [RobertArmin] For Ben Bagley? [TomJones] for Julius Monk's Upstairs At The Downstairs [TomJones] Yes and For Ben Bagley [TomJones] We wrote for Julius's revues for four years [RobertArmin] So many people started that way - Harnick, Strouse, Stewart, etc. It was a great training ground. [RobertArmin] I guess today, cabaret's are the only equivalent. And it's not the same thing at all. [TomJones] The last year - 1959 - a show called DEMI-DOZEN [TomJones] we wrote 12 numbers - out of 22 [RobertArmin] And then your little one act -- the next year. Expanded into a full show... [TomJones] Some of it is the same, I suppose. [RobertArmin] Many people are not aware of the early years before The Fantasticks. [TomJones] Yes. 1959 - we did a one act musical called THE FANTASTICKS [RobertArmin] You didn't just appear out of nowhere. [TomJones] The main thing is to get things on-stage [TomJones] To get performed [TomJones] It doesn't really matter where [TomJones] As long as it is in front of people [RobertArmin] encoreplay asks: Didn't you have items in NEW FACES? [TomJones] No. We didn't do NEW FACES. [RobertArmin] The Fantasticks certainly put you on the map as writers. But your next project landed you in the lap of David Merrick!!! [RobertArmin] In fact two shows. 110 and I Do! What was that like? [TomJones] David Merrick was a monster. [TomJones] But he got the shows on. [TomJones] And he got googgood people [RobertArmin] googgood? [TomJones] Good [RobertArmin] How Gower Champion put up with him year after year is a mystery. But he did great work. [TomJones] And you didn't have to spend 5 years raising money [RobertArmin] Did Gower help you a lot in the creation of those shows? [TomJones] David and Gower - that is too complicated to address in this way [RobertArmin] Of course. [TomJones] Gower was wonderful to work with [TomJones] But when we did [RobertArmin] There is an excellent interview with you on Fynsworth Alley from several years ago that goes into greater depth about many of these issues. [RobertArmin] We can just touch on these things in these chats, unfortunately. [RobertArmin] CTTheatreLover writes: Hello Mr. Jones... just wanted to say I read your book on writing for the theater and found it very inspiring [RobertArmin] I'm curious about many of the songs that were discarded over the years. You wrote so many wonderful songs for 110 and other shows. [RobertArmin] Some of them have been recorded on Lost in Boston and other albums. Are there any plans to put others in circulation? [RobertArmin] Slight technical problem -- one moment [TomJones] Make us an offer [RobertArmin] Now it's working. [RobertArmin] A little problem with the software, I guess. [TomJones] I hoooope so [RobertArmin] Tell me a bit about Roadside. Sorry to say, I missed it. [TomJones] We started on ROADSIDE even before THE FANTASTICKS [TomJones] we NEVER had the rights, so we dropped it [TomJones] We forgot about it [TomJones] A couple of years ago our assistant found a tape of 6 songs [TomJones] we had written nearly 50 years ago [TomJones] They were such fun we decided to dig it out [RobertArmin] Thaddeus asks: Were "Smellamagoody Perfume" and "Another Drunken Cowboy" written decades ago or when you went back to work on ROADSIDE? [TomJones] To get the rights [TomJones] And to finish the score [TomJones] And make the book work, which we were never able to do before. [TomJones] SMELLLAMAGOODY PERFUME was written 45 years ago [TomJones] DRUNKEN COWBOY was written 3 years ago [RobertArmin] Were you pleased with the York production? And is the show available for licensing now? [TomJones] Hopefully, they sound like the same world [TomJones] I loved the York production [TomJones] The show is available thru MTI [RobertArmin] Many of your early shows were videotaped for TV - The Fantasticks, Philemon, etc. Will we ever see these shows on DVD? [TomJones] And there is a cd which is quite good [RobertArmin] Yes, I love the CD. [TomJones] No. We don't think the Hallmark FANTASTICKS should be released [TomJones] Ditto - PHILEMON [TomJones] They don't really show off the stage versions [RobertArmin] So we shouldn't keep watching for them, I take it? [RobertArmin] Thaddeus wonders "Why not Philemon?" [TomJones] Difficult to explain. It kept the cast of the original, but missed the spirit [RobertArmin] Are there any plans for a recording of Mirette? Or was one made? [TomJones] I would love to have a recording. It is a good score. [TomJones] But there are some legal problems concerning the original [TomJones] children's book [RobertArmin] encoreplay writes: I saw it at Sundance and it was wonderful. [TomJones] Question: Saw it at the workshop or the outdoor theatre? [RobertArmin] encoreplay writes: is there any possibility of it being picked up for licensing? [RobertArmin] encoreplay writes: the workshop [TomJones] Yes. It is available through MTI. [RobertArmin] I'm curious, a lot of musicals are being filmed for TV now and maybe even more for theatres thanks to Chicago. Which of your shows would you like to see filmed? [RobertArmin] And any casting ideas? [TomJones] I don't have a top of the head answer [TomJones] Let me think for just a minute [TomJones] I suppose GROVER'S CORNERS [RobertArmin] Well, of course. [RobertArmin] Would you want that to go straight to film -- or stage first? [TomJones] Or COLETTE COLLAGE. I love that piece. [RobertArmin] An original movie musical would be a change of pace. [TomJones] Either. Both. All [TomJones] I don't think our things will be movies. [RobertArmin] Thaddeus writes: I think 110 opens out better for movies than the "smaller" plays. [TomJones] We pretty much write for the magic hidden within the limitations of the stage. [RobertArmin] encoreplay asks: Were you satisfied with the film treatment of THE FANTASTICKS? I thought some of the changes were marvelous. [TomJones] I liked some of it a lot. Some of it I didn't. [TomJones] Generally speaking, I liked things around the carnival more than I liked things around the house. [TomJones] It was great for once in my life to be around the making of a movie. [RobertArmin] That must have been an intriguing experience. [RobertArmin] Especially, for a work as intimate as The Fantasticks. [RobertArmin] Over the years, you and Harvey have generally rewritten shows for revivals. Or added new songs to older shows. Is there one show that you think is "perfect" as it was first produced? [TomJones] All of the outdoor stuff was done in a hidden valley in Arizona [TomJones] and it was magic [TomJones] They build this dinky little carnival out in the middle of nowhere. [TomJones] It was a real turn-on. [RobertArmin] Thaddeus writes: I've seen about 20 El Gallos. Still never saw a better one than Jerry Orbach. [RobertArmin] He's probably right! [TomJones] When the film works, which it doesn't always, [TomJones] it sometimes manages to combine the feeling of Fellini with old MGM [TomJones] And that is fabulous when that happens [RobertArmin] That's a good description. [RobertArmin] The biggest problem with a show that well known (and dear to our hearts) is that a movie can never live up to our expectations. [TomJones] Jerry Orbach was - is - great. We're doing a tribute for him next week [RobertArmin] But I think it was a valiant attempt. [TomJones] and he is singing TRY TO REMEMBER [RobertArmin] Jerry sang that in 2001 shortly after 9-11 and it was extraordinarily moving, I am told. [TomJones] Yes. It is strange that the song now has these extra connotations [RobertArmin] I would love to attend that tribute, if possible. Jerry Orbach is one of the reasons I fell in love with musical theatre. [RobertArmin] Carnival was my very first musical -- although Ed Ames was in it at the time. [TomJones] But everything about THE FANTASTICKS is strange. We ran through 10 presidents. [RobertArmin] So I wore out my copies of Carnival and The Fantasticks as a kid! [RobertArmin] Sorry to see it close finally? [TomJones] Yes. No. - - No. Yes. It had a reasonably good run. [RobertArmin] Reasonably... [RobertArmin] Not likely to ever be out-run, that's for sure. [RobertArmin] So are you and Harvey still working on new projects (other than Grover's Corners)? What surprises await us? [TomJones] Side note: if you saw Ed Ames in CARNIVAL, you saw Susan Watson, who was the first girl in THE FANTASTICKS when it was a one act [RobertArmin] No, I saw Anna Maria Alberghetti in the National Company. [TomJones] Harvey is retired and living in Texas. Painting and writing a book. And very happy. [RobertArmin] But I've seen Susan in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. She was wonderful! [TomJones] I am working on a musical version of HAROLD AND MAUDE with a talented [RobertArmin] ! [TomJones] young composer named Joseph Thalken. [RobertArmin] I'm delighted to hear about Harold and Maude. I knew someone would get around to it eventually. [RobertArmin] Glad that Harvey is happy! But we will all miss his music. [TomJones] I am excited about HAROLD AND MAUDE [TomJones] I am old but I have young children [RobertArmin] Thaddeus asks: Is Harvey so retired that he won't do any more work on GROVERS CORNERS if you get the rights back? [TomJones] H & M is about trying to reach across Time to make contact between old and young [RobertArmin] You would seem to be the ideal writer for that theme. [TomJones] No, Harvey worked on the revised 110. And he would work on any of our works [RobertArmin] That's good to hear. [TomJones] that were being revised or further completed or changed. [RobertArmin] I would love to chat with Harvey some day, too. Ben Bagley was a friend and I am working on his autobiography. It seems only fitting that Harvey should contribute the cover art to such a book. [TomJones] He would be perfect. [RobertArmin] Since he did all of the Bagley album covers. [TomJones] Yes. Harvey was and is a great painter. [RobertArmin] Absolutely. [RobertArmin] encoreplay asks: Is it hard to go back and get into the mood of a play you "Finished" years ago? [TomJones] No. Not at all. If I feel there is work yet to be done, I relish the chance. [RobertArmin] I had asked earlier, but we passed it by, is there one of your works that you are completely happy with? That you wouldn't change a thing? [TomJones] On the other hand, if something is truly finished at last - as I think I DO is, [TomJones] I am not interested. [RobertArmin] That's the show I would have named. [TomJones] We had the chance to revise it for the Lambs [TomJones] Theatre production a few years back. [RobertArmin] The revival with Karen Ziemba and David Garrison was superb. [TomJones] That's the one. [RobertArmin] And of course the cast album in on Fynsworth. (A little plug here.) [TomJones] I think COLETTE is almost finished [TomJones] And THE FANTASTICKS [TomJones] And ROADSIDE. It is done. I can't do it any better. [RobertArmin] Re: The Fantasticks. Do you feel strongly about the new abduction song, or can people stage it with the original song if they want? [TomJones] But CELEBRATION - That waits to be finished. [TomJones] And GROVER'S CORNERS [TomJones] And MIRETTE [RobertArmin] Yes... Yes. [TomJones] And PHILEMON [TomJones] And THE GAME OF LOVE [RobertArmin] I'm looking forward to seeing all of them again -- perhaps in repertory! [TomJones] That would make me a happy old man [RobertArmin] We need to get recordings of several of those. [TomJones] Terrific [RobertArmin] Thaddeus asks: I miss the "Write Me" opening number from the Diana Rigg version of COLLETTE [TomJones] Funny. I can't even remember it. [RobertArmin] Can you tell me a little about The Game of Love. That's one show I don't know anything about? [TomJones] I'll tell you a song I wish somebody would record. [TomJones] LOVE IS NOT A SENTIMENT WORTHY OF RESPECT [TomJones] That's from COLETTE COLLAGE. [RobertArmin] A new song? [RobertArmin] Since the recording? [TomJones] And the fun thing is - it is unexpected from us. And a good song, too. [TomJones] No. It is on the album. But I meant - record it out of the show [TomJones] GAME OF LOVE [RobertArmin] Yes, of course. [TomJones] Harvey was busy doing his art assignments [RobertArmin] I think Fynsworth should do an all-star album of Jones and Schmidt songs. We'll include "Love Is Not A Sentiment." [TomJones] so I did a musical set in Vienna using Offenbach music [RobertArmin] Ah. [TomJones] based on plays by Schnitzler [TomJones] It has yet to be done. [RobertArmin] Similar to La Ronde? [TomJones] But it is fun -- and sexy. [RobertArmin] I'd love to read it. That's the director side of me speaking. [TomJones] Similar - and not. Based on the Anatol plays. Many love affairs of one man over a period of years. [RobertArmin] Anyway, Tom, I want to thank you so much for taking this time to chat with me. I realize this isn't the easiest way to communicate, but it certainly is challenging! [RobertArmin] We can just touch on a few things here. [TomJones] It has been an adventure. Thanks for the introduction. [RobertArmin] I am looking forward to speaking with you in person sometime soon. [TomJones] Ditto [RobertArmin] My guest next week is composer Charles Strouse. [RobertArmin] Maybe someday you and he can get together on a show. That's an idea. [TomJones] Good idea. [RobertArmin] You both contributed to Shoestring Revue all those years ago. [TomJones] True. [RobertArmin] But not writing together. [RobertArmin] One last comment from Thaddeus: Mr. Jones, I write science fiction for a living. I listen to music while I work. I've sold about 50 novels and 200 stories over 40 years, and at least half were written to the music of Jones & Schmidt. I just want to thank you for all the pleasure you've given me. [TomJones] And now Charles is back with his original partner. I think that is great. [RobertArmin] Everything goes in cycles! [TomJones] Thanks, Thaddeus. [TomJones] Goodnight, all [RobertArmin] Good night to everyone who joined us tonight. And thanks again, Tom.
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