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Transcript of Robert
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[RobertArmin] Good evening and welcome to the Fynsworth Alley chat room. [RobertArmin] Tonight I am pleased to welcome a man who rarely gives interviews [RobertArmin] so it is particularly exciting to have this chance to speak with Lee Adams. [RobertArmin] Lee is the man responsible for the lyrics for BYE BYE BIRDIE, APPLAUSE, ALL AMERICAN, IT'S A BIRD… IT'S A PLANE… IT'S SUPERMAN… [RobertArmin] GOLDEN BOY and many more. [RobertArmin] Welcome, Lee. [LeeAdams] Thank you very much, glad to be here! [LeeAdams] Glad to be anywhere [RobertArmin] It's funny but the song that you may be best known for is not from a Broadway score at all. [LeeAdams] Correct [RobertArmin] You and Charles Strouse were responsible for the theme from ALL IN THE FAMILY. [RobertArmin] How did that come about? [LeeAdams] Oh my [LeeAdams] We'd written a score for a movie, THE NIGHT THEY RAIDED MINSKY'S [RobertArmin] A wonderful score, by the way [LeeAdams] A few years later, Norman Lear called Charles Strouse and myself [LeeAdams] and he asked us, he said he had the rights to an English television show, called THOSE WERE THE DAYS [LeeAdams] and the characters were very controversial at the time and he wasn't sure he would ever get it on television [LeeAdams] but would we write him a title song [LeeAdams] He couldn't pay us much money but could give us part of the publisher's share [RobertArmin] !!! [LeeAdams] so we wrote THOSE WERE THE DAYS [LeeAdams] And we cashed our little checks and nothing happened for three years [RobertArmin] And aren't you glad that he didn't ask you to write a new one when he changed the title? [LeeAdams] Yeah, we didn't know about the title change until we read in the newspaper that Norman was finally getting the show on television [LeeAdams] And now it was called ALL IN THE FAMILY [LeeAdams] We assumed our “title song” was dead [LeeAdams] but Norman called us and said watch the show. We wished him luck and were tremendously excited that our title song was still on the show [LeeAdams] even though it wasn't the title song [LeeAdams] In shock, we called Norman and asked him why he had used the song and he said, "Because I liked it." [RobertArmin] I was happy to see that I wasn't the only one who couldn't understand the words "Gee, our old Lasalle ran great." Carroll O'Connor and Jean Stapleton went back into the studio to re-record the song. [LeeAdams] I know [LeeAdams] Even then, people could not understand that line. It is very embarrassing to a lyricist not to have his lyrics understood. [LeeAdams] I was sleeping at home one night at midnight, soon after the television show went on the air, and my phone rang [RobertArmin] Oh god, I know what's coming... [LeeAdams] There were loud bar noises in the background. And some guy said, "We're here trying to figure out what that damn line is" [RobertArmin] And you knew what line he was talking about. [LeeAdams] LOL [RobertArmin] Well, I imagine your little check has grown a bit over the years. [LeeAdams] Yes, we still get checks [RobertArmin] Let's go back a bit and talk about how you got into songwriting. [RobertArmin] What were you doing originally? [LeeAdams] Going to college, I was a journalism guy, gonna be a newspaperman, came to New York to go to Columbia for a Masters in Journalism [LeeAdams] I'd been writing lyrics as a hobby [LeeAdams] I met Charles Strouse, who was a young rehearsal pianist and composer [LeeAdams] And we began working together [LeeAdams] I still had no idea I could make a living writing lyrics. [RobertArmin] What were some of the early revues that featured your songs? [LeeAdams] Between 1950, when Strouse and I met, to about 1958, we wrote revue material for some 20-30 revues in New York, Pittsburgh, London [LeeAdams] In those days, there were lots of revues and we wrote lots of them. [RobertArmin] I collect cast albums and it’s always fun to discover one of your early songs. [LeeAdams] But you don't make a living at that [RobertArmin] What was the motivation to create a full Broadway show -- and how did you come up with the idea of an Elvis Presley spoof? [LeeAdams] A producer came to us. His name was Edward Padula. [LeeAdams] And he asked us if we would like to write a show about teenagers. [LeeAdams] He was aiming for Broadway [LeeAdams] No one had ever asked us to do anything like that before. [LeeAdams] So we began trying to get an idea. And after working with several different book writers [LeeAdams] We ended up with Michael Stewart and between us we got the idea of doing a show that would satirize the teenage obsession with an Elvis Presley-type Singer [LeeAdams] So, in 1960, BYE BYE BIRDIE opened on Broadway with an advance sale of $230. We were a complete sleeper. [RobertArmin] LOL [LeeAdams] It was a first Broadway show for most of us. [LeeAdams] It was Gower Champion’s first show as both Director and Choreographer [LeeAdams] There were no stars [LeeAdams] Although Chita Rivera had been in WEST SIDE STORY [LeeAdams] And Dick Van Dyke had done some revues [RobertArmin] At one point Chita Rivera had considered changing her name to Chita O'Hara. Would you have had to write “Irish Rose” for her? [LeeAdams] LOL, I suppose so. She was wonderful [LeeAdams] So this completely unheralded show opened on Broadway. There were seven important daily newspapers in 1960 [LeeAdams] The first review we got was The New York Times. It was written by Brooks Atkinson, who was in his last year as the Times critic [LeeAdams] He hated the show! [RobertArmin] ! [LeeAdams] He wrote seven short paragraphs and here is the last paragraph: [LeeAdams] "It is neither fish nor fowl, nor musical comedy" [LeeAdams] We thought we were dead. [RobertArmin] But then the other critics weighed in? [LeeAdams] All raves [LeeAdams] We were able to do something you can't do anymore, which is beat the New York Times [RobertArmin] And win the Tony for Best Musical! [LeeAdams] Right! [LeeAdams] So, three months later, I went into the boss of the magazine I was working for [LeeAdams] I was a magazine editor [LeeAdams] And I resigned, because I finally realized that after twelve years of trying, I could pay the rent by writing lyrics. [RobertArmin] And I imagine you have never had to have a "survival job" again. [LeeAdams] Correct [LeeAdams] It's really strange. Joshua Logan, one of my mentors, [LeeAdams] told me every hit show is a fluke [LeeAdams] The right people have to be working on the right material with the right people and the right actors at the right time, etc. [RobertArmin] And BYE BYE BIRDIE remains unique after all these years. [LeeAdams] Thanks to this fluke, BIRDIE has gone on for 43 years and remains the most performed musical in high school and amateur groups. [RobertArmin] There really hasn't been another show like it. [LeeAdams] GREASE has done very well [RobertArmin] But GREASE was a spoof of a genre. [RobertArmin] Whereas BIRDIE was original in every way. [RobertArmin] The tour with Tommy Tune was so well received -- and so many people wanted to come because they had been involved in school and amateur productions of the show. [RobertArmin] FranklinShepardInc wants to say: Mr. Adams, I just wanted to tell you that I love your work on APPLAUSE - I grew up listening to the LP and I was very happy when they recently released the CD. Do you know of any plans for a revival, or at least a release of the TV movie version? [LeeAdams] There have been some plans to try and revive it [LeeAdams] But it hasn't worked yet. [LeeAdams] And thanks for the kind words [RobertArmin] We did get out to see APPLAUSE when it was at Paper Mill. [RobertArmin] We're still hoping a production does make it back to Broadway. [LeeAdams] That would be nice. [RobertArmin] Would you make any changes in the score or keep it exactly as is? [LeeAdams] I think I would make some changes [LeeAdams] A song Margo sings "Hurry Back" is not really very good and I think [LeeAdams] we could make some other changes in Act Two, we'll see. [RobertArmin] The show was "updated" to 1970. Would you keep it set then -- or update it again? [LeeAdams] Depends on what the director wants to do, whoever he or she may be [RobertArmin] Lauren Bacall was, of course, not much a singer. Do you envision a stronger singer doing the role or keeping it "easy" for non-singers to play. [LeeAdams] Well, Bacall was terrific! [RobertArmin] I got to see her in the National Tour, fortunately. And she WAS great. [LeeAdams] Give me a great actress and personality who sings just ok, instead of a singer who doesn't have the charisma of a star. [RobertArmin] FranklinShepardInc adds: The lyrics to "Welcome to the Theatre" are chillingly brilliant, and I love some other lyrics in the show - "Good Friends," "One of a Kind," and "Think How It's Gonna Be" [LeeAdams] Thank you very much! [LeeAdams] Book writers always complain that lyricists always steal their best lines. [LeeAdams] This is absolutely true! [LeeAdams] The book writer of APPLAUSE at that time was Sidney Michaels [LeeAdams] His curtain line for Act One was "Welcome to the Theatre" [RobertArmin] Son of a gun. [LeeAdams] I said, “That's a song title” [LeeAdams] He said, “You can't steal my best line” [LeeAdams] Then I convinced him [LeeAdams] And it worked [RobertArmin] And there was, of course, "Fasten Your Seatbelts, It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night." [RobertArmin] Stolen from Joe Mankiewicz [LeeAdams] Right! [LeeAdams] You steal every chance you get. [RobertArmin] Has there been any word about rebroadcasting the TV version with Bacall and Larry Hagman? [LeeAdams] I don't know [RobertArmin] We can always hope that it comes out on home video one of these days. [LeeAdams] That would be nice. [RobertArmin] There was also a TV version of another one of your shows which hasn't been seen since its first broadcast. [RobertArmin] That was SUPERMAN. [RobertArmin] It was kind of a low budget sort of production I think, but it had an interesting cast. [LeeAdams] It was a wonderful cast, and a good show. [RobertArmin] I never saw the show on Broadway, unfortunately, but I did rush to see a local college production in L.A.so I did get to see the show sort of. [RobertArmin] And, of course, I also saw the wonderful revival at Goodspeed with Veanne Cox singing "You've Got Possibilities!" [LeeAdams] Linda Lavin did that on Broadway [LeeAdams] She was terrific! [RobertArmin] FranklinShepardInc. writes: "Superman" is available on VHS online (I'm not sure if it's legal). What I'd like to know is, did you and Mr. Strouse write the new song in the TV version for the gangsters near the beginning? [LeeAdams] I don't remember that. [LeeAdams] Oh, the TV version, we must have written that, I just don't remember. We forget things now. Well, I forget things now. [RobertArmin] As do we all. [RobertArmin] Do you think if SUPERMAN had opened a few months later -- after the success of the BATMAN TV series, that it would have had a stronger audience reaction? [LeeAdams] Possibly [LeeAdams] But, Harold Prince always thought it had a short run cause at the same time people could watch SUPERMAN twice a week on television [LeeAdams] and they wouldn't pay to see it in the theatre. [LeeAdams] Lots of people like the show. I'd like to see it revived. [RobertArmin] I was always a big fan of Jack Cassidy and his version of "You're the Woman for The Man Who Has Everything" has always been a favorite. [LeeAdams] Jack Cassidy was fantastic. [RobertArmin] I agree. [RobertArmin] We skipped over a couple of your shows. [RobertArmin] Let's go back and mention All American, with a book by some young writer named Melvin Brooks. [RobertArmin] Who later claimed that THE PRODUCERS was his "first" musical. [LeeAdams] Might have been his third [RobertArmin] There's a good question for you Franklin? What was the other show? [RobertArmin] ALL AMERICAN introduced probably my very favorite Strouse-Adams song -- Once Upon A Time. What a glorious lyric. [LeeAdams] Thank you, Robert [LeeAdams] You never know what song, if any, is gonna come out of a show and become a standard [LeeAdams] That one has, I'm delighted to say. [LeeAdams] Incidentally, I once went to ASCAP and looked up the title Once Upon A Time [LeeAdams] There are over one hundred copyrighted songs with that title. [RobertArmin] Including one by Anthony Newley in the movie Can Heironymous Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness? [RobertArmin] With lyrics by Herbert Kretzmer of Les Miz fame. [RobertArmin] Very different song, though! [RobertArmin] Ah, Franklin reminds us that it was SHINBONE ALLEY. Lee had thought it was archy and mehitabel -- which of course was later adapted for the stage as SHINBONE ALLEY. [RobertArmin] I had forgotten that. [LeeAdams] Thank you, Franklin [RobertArmin] It wasn't an official quiz, Franklin , but I have no doubt you will win the next one!!!! [RobertArmin] Do you have a favorite recording of Once Upon a Time? [LeeAdams] There have been many good ones. [LeeAdams] It is not very well known, but Frank Sinatra recorded it beautifully [LeeAdams] but my favorite rendition of that song, was by Mabel Mercer in some small smoky club [LeeAdams] not long before she died. [LeeAdams] She was just wonderful. [RobertArmin] I always put a plug in for my buddy Stuart Zagnit, who sang the song at Rainbow and Stars in a Charles Strouse revue with Linda Lavin. Unfortunately, the revue was not recorded. [LeeAdams] Yeah, he is good, Stuart. [RobertArmin] That was before he was cast as Buzz in APPLAUSE, wasn't it? [LeeAdams] I think so. [LeeAdams] Don't test my memory, Robert [LeeAdams] I'm lucky I remember where to go when I go home tonight [RobertArmin] It's okay, Franklin, will have the answers! [RobertArmin] We have a "new" person out there -- DorothyGale, whom I would guess is really an old friend around here. [RobertArmin] You'll never guess what show I saw her in just this past weekend -- Miss Dorothy Gale. [RobertArmin] Welcome, Dorothy -- and your little dog, too. [RobertArmin] So now we've hit upon ALL AMERICAN. Do you think that show is revivable? [LeeAdams] No [LeeAdams] Well, maybe. [LeeAdams] It didn't work the first time, but it may well be fixable. [LeeAdams] All a producer has to do is say, "I have the ten million dollars, and we'll fix it." [RobertArmin] Of course, you'd need to find a stronger book writer '-) [LeeAdams] I would like Mel to do it again [RobertArmin] Your next show has been rewritten a number of times. And produced in various locations. What do you think is the future for GOLDEN BOY? [LeeAdams] I don't know? [LeeAdams] Some people have said it is Charles’ and my best score [LeeAdams] I like the show a lot. [LeeAdams] But you never know what is going to happen. [RobertArmin] Do you think the show needs a star of Sammy Davis's caliber, or does the show work with just a good actor/singer? [LeeAdams] Very few stars around of Sammy Davis's caliber [LeeAdams] But I do think the show will work with a good actor. [RobertArmin] Franklin adds: I think "Don't Forget 127th Street" is a terrific and highly underrated comedy song. [LeeAdams] Thank you, Franklin, again [RobertArmin] Is GOLDEN BOY being done around the country? [LeeAdams] Not very much. [RobertArmin] It's a shame that the Encores! production wasn't recorded. [LeeAdams] It was a very good production. They do good stuff. [RobertArmin] Which of your many scores would you most like to see a new recording of? [LeeAdams] That's very hard. [LeeAdams] One of the best shows Charles and I wrote was done in England [LeeAdams] and it may be the best score we have ever written [LeeAdams] It was called I AND ALBERT [LeeAdams] about the complete reign of Queen Victoria [LeeAdams] had a respectable run in London [LeeAdams] but never crossed the Atlantic. [RobertArmin] Fortunately, a cast album was made. [RobertArmin] But I was asking if there could be a new, complete recording of a show, which one would you like most. Was I AND ALBERT the answer? [LeeAdams] No, [LeeAdams] If you pin me down to one show, it would probably be GOLDEN BOY [RobertArmin] Well, let's hope DRG does get around to the Encores! production some day. [RobertArmin] You mentioned to me earlier this evening that BYE BYE BIRDIE has several new incarnations pending? [LeeAdams] pending [LeeAdams] Encores is going to do it in its season next Spring [LeeAdams] and BIRDIE has also been optioned for a road tour which is to start a year from now. [RobertArmin] So the Encores! version will definitely not be moving to Broadway? [LeeAdams] right [RobertArmin] I think that will free them to cast the most desirable performers without having to worry about their availability for a long run [LeeAdams] You're right. [RobertArmin] And you mentioned that you know very little about the planned remake of the Columbia film version. [LeeAdams] I know as much as you do, Robert, rumors [LeeAdams] Columbia has the right to do a remake, which would be lovely. [RobertArmin] But unlike with the theatre, you and Charles have a lot less input on what they can do with the movie? [LeeAdams] That's right. [RobertArmin] You did write several (wonderful) new songs for the TV movie version of BIRDIE. If they asked you, have you any new ideas for songs for BIRDIE? [LeeAdams] I like the new stuff we wrote for the TV version [LeeAdams] Jason Alexander was wonderful in it [LeeAdams] We also wrote a number for the mother for the TV version which we had always wanted to do. [LeeAdams] The actress who played it on Broadway couldn't sing. [RobertArmin] She couldn't sing but she did a whole album as Mama Rose in GYPSY! [RobertArmin] I would have to agree with your assessment! [LeeAdams] Kay Medford [RobertArmin] The song in the TV movie was quite different from the song you used in the national tour... [RobertArmin] How many mother songs did you and Charles come up with? [RobertArmin] Mama and Rosie did a duet. [LeeAdams] I love the song we wrote for the TV version. Tyne Daly was terrific. "A Mother Doesn't Matter Anymore." It's a good song, if you excuse my saying it [RobertArmin] I just remember the bench scene with Annie Reinking and Marilyn Cooper singing a duet together. Can't remember the title right now. [RobertArmin] And "A Giant Step" was introduced brilliantly on the tour by Tommy Tune. [LeeAdams] Tommy Tune is wonderful [RobertArmin] And takes GIANT steps. [RobertArmin] I want to hit on one of your less successful shows. Which I saw several times in previews and after the opening. [RobertArmin] I'm speaking, of course, about BRING BACK BIRDIE! [LeeAdams] LOL [RobertArmin] It was, to be polite, a bit of muddle. What was the story behind that? [LeeAdams] LOL [LeeAdams] Well, it wasn't a bit of a muddle, it was a large muddle [LeeAdams] You never can tell when you are working on a show, when it doesn't work [LeeAdams] You work on it every day and you think it is getting better. You think you are going from A-Z, but you are going from A-B [LeeAdams] Flop shows are as much of a mystery as hit shows. [LeeAdams] Every professional has flops [LeeAdams] Nobody gets it right every time. [RobertArmin] One show I didn't get to see was A BROADWAY MUSICAL. One night only. [RobertArmin] Was that an all new score or did you use some "trunk songs?" [LeeAdams] We probably used some trunk shows. I don't remember much about it [RobertArmin] The show? [LeeAdams] My mind sort of blanks out the flops. [RobertArmin] Well, we all tend to forget the flops, thankfully. And thankfully, you move on towards new shows. [RobertArmin] And your newest is MARTY. How is that progressing? [LeeAdams] Well, after working on MARTY for seven years [LeeAdams] We think we are starting to get it right [LeeAdams] If all goes well, we will be opening in Toronto [LeeAdams] in nine months or so and then on to Broadway [RobertArmin] And John C. Reilly is still attached?? [LeeAdams] Not only attached, he loves the project and is absolutely superb as Marty [RobertArmin] Are there any significant cast changes since Boston? [LeeAdams] Not yet [LeeAdams] We had a very good run in Boston at the Huntington Theatre [LeeAdams] And we learned a lot there. [RobertArmin] Charles Strouse mentioned that you will actually be adding a few performers since several roles were doubled in Boston. [LeeAdams] Correct [RobertArmin] How big a show is MARTY -- will it work in a big house or are you hoping for one of the more intimate theatres? [LeeAdams] It's a middle size show. MARTY would not work in one of the big houses [LeeAdams] and with a musical you can't play in too small of a house and make a living, so a mid-size house is right for us. [RobertArmin] Well, I've heard some of the score to MARTY and I think you and Charles have captured the feel of Chayefsky's characters beautifully. [LeeAdams] Thank you, Robert. [LeeAdams] One of the hard parts of a show like MARTY is the vocabulary [LeeAdams] It's a lot easier to be clever with sophisticated characters [LeeAdams] but when you are writing blue collar people [LeeAdams] the vocabulary has to be theirs [LeeAdams] Can't do fancy stuff and it makes lyric writing a lot harder [RobertArmin] And you have to find a place to say, "What do you want to do tonight, Marty?" [LeeAdams] Right. That's a number in the show. [RobertArmin] I wonder a bit if Stephen Sondheim had MARTY in mind when he first wrote Saturday Night, because the opening number has a bit of the feel of MARTY and his friends. [LeeAdams] I never saw the show. [RobertArmin] The opening number is about "what do you do on a Saturday night." [LeeAdams] Our number is called "What do you feel like doing?" [LeeAdams] I don't think Stephen will mind, since Chayefsky beat him to it. [RobertArmin] In reference to the two "flops" we mentioned before, FranklinShephardInc asks: Do you think that there is good stuff of yours in those two flops? Any songs in those you'd like to be more well-known? [LeeAdams] LOL [LeeAdams] I'll have to listen to those scores again and figure that out. [RobertArmin] There was the one song you cut from APPLAUSE -- "Smashing New York Times," which Jason Graae recorded for Fynsworth, which is quite wonderful. [LeeAdams] Thank you, Robert [RobertArmin] There are quite a few other "lost" Lee Adams lyrics on the Lost In Boston albums, among others. [LeeAdams] They are all for sale. [RobertArmin] Your "flop" songs are better than most of today's hits. No surprises there. [LeeAdams] Well, thank you very much. [RobertArmin] One last score that we haven't mentioned and may surprise you that I am aware of, is your score for ALICE IN WONDERLAND -- OR WHAT'S A NICE KID LIKE YOU DOING IN A PLACE LIKE THIS? [LeeAdams] LOL [LeeAdams] An animated show [LeeAdams] It's fun [RobertArmin] I had a reel-to-reel recorder when I was a kid and recorded the whole show. [LeeAdams] You're as big a fan as Franklin [LeeAdams] maybe bigger, a buff [RobertArmin] I'm still waiting for someone to reissue it on home video! [RobertArmin] It featured a great title song by Sammy Davis and some lovely music and lyrics. [LeeAdams] You know a lot of stuff. [RobertArmin] Lee, I can't thank you enough for joining me this evening. [RobertArmin] Amazingly enough, in thirty years in the profession, I have never run into you anywhere. [RobertArmin] You are a very private person, so this is a special delight. [LeeAdams] Thank you, Robert. It has been a joy. [RobertArmin] Is there any new project after MARTY that you are thinking about? [LeeAdams] Charles and I started, even before MARTY, a musical version of AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY [LeeAdams] That may happen some day [RobertArmin] A PLACE IN THE SUN was the movie version for those you don't know it. [LeeAdams] It is a very difficult project [RobertArmin] It's definitely a serious musical. [RobertArmin] Best of luck with MARTY - hopefully next year! [RobertArmin] And welcome (back) to the theatre! [RobertArmin] Next week my guest will be the fabulous bookwriter of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, RAGS and JUNO -- Joseph Stein. [RobertArmin] Join me then. [RobertArmin] Thanks again, Lee. [LeeAdams] When MARTY happens, I'll be right back here talking about it. [RobertArmin] Good night, everyone. |
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